LL to Disneyfy the SL Grid

SL Issues Discussion_17March09 - about the plans for sanitizing most of the grid of adult content and geographically seperate it in a SL red light district.

[Chatlog of discussion below, with some names anonimized - summary comes later]

[12:01] Smoke Wijaya: Hi :)
[12:01] Anonymous1: hey there
[12:02] Smoke Wijaya: forgot the time .. heh
[12:02] Anonymous1: so whats this about changes to sl ?
[12:02] Aeris Betsen: hey isis
[12:02] Anonymous1: i am new so not sure what its all about
[12:02] Smoke Wijaya: Hmm...you did not see the announcement of the plans yet?
[12:02] Anonymous1: hello Aeris
[12:02] Smoke Wijaya: ah ok
[12:02] Smoke Wijaya: Well...
[12:02] Smoke Wijaya: they decided that the grid (mainland) should get sanitized from ädult"content and conduct...
[12:03] Smoke Wijaya: and they want to do this by geographically seperating
[12:03] Anonymous1: the hole mainland?
[12:03] Smoke Wijaya: yes
[12:03] Smoke Wijaya: they want it all on one place
[12:03] Anonymous1: so what about people in there privet homes?
[12:03] Smoke Wijaya: Sl red light district so to speak
[12:03] Smoke Wijaya: rigth Isis...indeed....
[12:03] Anonymous1: sounds like a cash grab for people to by sims
[12:03] Smoke Wijaya: Lindens now say on the forums that that will be ok, people in their private homes...
[12:04] Smoke Wijaya: ...but the definition of "adult"..
[12:04] Anonymous1: also sounds like they will hert the land market
[12:04] Smoke Wijaya: contains language like "sexual themes" and "erotic theme"
[12:04] Anonymous1: so if i wanted to walk around naked on my land and its a mature sim i would be ok ?
[12:05] Smoke Wijaya: I dont thinhk so...
[12:05] Anonymous1: gee r they going to come out with linden police?
[12:05] Smoke Wijaya: you would if it was a mature private region flagged as "adult"
[12:05] Smoke Wijaya: for islands it is ok to flag as adult...
[12:05] Anonymous1: sounds silly
[12:05] Smoke Wijaya: instead of move to the red light district
[12:05] Smoke Wijaya: yes
[12:05] Smoke Wijaya: and you mention police....
[12:05] Smoke Wijaya: enofrcement of this in my opinion will be impossible
[12:06] Anonymous1: why worie about it ? you have to be 18 to play anyway
[12:06] Smoke Wijaya: Lindens have to rely on the abuse report system, on individual users reporting abuse
[12:06] Anonymous1: how can they do this to all the people that have already bought land?
[12:06] Smoke Wijaya: Isis, corporate interests....and the possibility that they want to merge the adult and teengrid
[12:07] Smoke Wijaya: lol Isis...you ask many questions , which is cool :) hope I can keep up
[12:07] Smoke Wijaya: They can do anything....
[12:07] Smoke Wijaya: in the ToS it says "for any reason or no reason", "on Linden Lab's sole discretion" etc many times
[12:07] Smoke Wijaya: they can change the contract whenever they like...
[12:07] Smoke Wijaya: "can"
[12:08] Anonymous1: so all the clubs are screwed now?
[12:08] Smoke Wijaya: beats me...
[12:08] Smoke Wijaya: maybe only those that have a dancing pole...
[12:08] Smoke Wijaya: thats the thing, the broadness of the definitions
[12:08] Smoke Wijaya: Hey Anonymous2
[12:08] Anonymous1: so no audlt theam on the mainland unless its a privet home , yep cash grab to sell more islands
[12:09] Anonymous2: greetings
[12:09] Aeris Betsen wispers troublemarker

[12:11] Anonymous2: How on earth< I mean Torley doing something like that!
[12:11] Anonymous1: what r the club owners saying about this?
[12:11] Smoke Wijaya: not sure Anonymous1
[12:12] Smoke Wijaya: Hey Anonymous3
[12:12] Anonymous3: mornin Smoke
[12:12] Anonymous2: brb log
[12:12] Smoke Wijaya: k
[12:12] Anonymous3: sup everyone
[12:12] Anonymous1: all they need to do is make another option available to people in the land settings kinda like a level of audlt content then people can set a fillter in there settings that will alow them to block such places if they like , problum solved
[12:13] Smoke Wijaya: chilling....discussing the "disneyfy the sl grid"-act of LL
[12:13] Smoke Wijaya: right Isis
[12:13] Smoke Wijaya: but...
[12:13] Anonymous1: no need to #@!$@ all the people that bought land to make a club
[12:13] Anonymous3: oh snap
[12:13] Smoke Wijaya: but when they want to merge teen grid and adult grid, then that is no option
[12:13] Smoke Wijaya: can be a sign that they indeed want to do that..
[12:14] Smoke Wijaya: that this idea has not been chosen...
[12:14] Anonymous1: welll this rule does nothing to stop and audlt from hooking up with a teen
[12:14] Smoke Wijaya: also true
[12:14] Anonymous1: so if i want to make a club , i now am not able to unless i buy a plot off the main land ?
[12:15] Smoke Wijaya: so it might be just for corporate intersts...and in the same time, what you said, be for fuelling sale of private islands, as well as maybe thinking the land in this red light district will be valuable/wanted
[12:15] Smoke Wijaya: I am not sure Isis...
[12:15] Smoke Wijaya: I would think a club is ok...
[12:15] Smoke Wijaya: depends on what happens there...and what theme
[12:15] Anonymous2: bk
[12:15] Isis India: no striping as a small example and no sl sex as the big one i guess?
[12:16] Smoke Wijaya: but thats the thing....huge grey area...too broad defs....corrupt abuse report system...most puritan users will bottomline the AR system.....will be disaster
[12:16] Smoke Wijaya: I guess stripping and sex will be deemed adult
[12:16] Smoke Wijaya: sicne club is also not "private"
[12:17] Anonymous1: where can i read the fine print of this matter?
[12:17] Anonymous2: What do we want the intention of SLDM posn to be
[12:18] Smoke Wijaya: Isis, in thsi short article you will find all links to original posts of LL: http://sldemocraticmovement.org/ll_disneyfy_sl_grid
[12:18] Anonymous2: essentially we know that its another aspect of 'control' I thought we were all adults,
[12:18] Anonymous1: kk going to read now
[12:18] Smoke Wijaya: and some other links to blogs where discussion has been had already
[12:18] Anonymous2: if LL want us to behave like children then we should develop sim caving strategies
[12:19] Smoke Wijaya: I think slDM position will at least focus again on unilateral contract changes, lack of negotiation/acknowledgment of the user....
[12:19] Anonymous2: We need to establish whether the intention is to merge teen and adult grids
[12:19] Smoke Wijaya: and yes, it being policy imposed on all from above....
[12:19] Anonymous2: they state at presnt no
[12:19] Smoke Wijaya: yeah
[12:19] Anonymous2: Big Auntie!
[12:20] Anonymous1: i cant get the link on that page to open , do you have a direct link to the sl changes?
[12:20] Smoke Wijaya: hmm damn
[12:20] Anonymous2: simple solution to let Avatars decide through toggle on Viewer
[12:20] Smoke Wijaya: ok, wait a moment :)
[12:20] Anonymous1: thx
[12:20] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous2, Anonymous1 just said the same yes
[12:20] Anonymous2: tag content,
[12:20] Anonymous2: soz away logging! [needed]
[12:21] Smoke Wijaya: oh, they already took one article down .. where they defined adult content and all...
[12:21] Smoke Wijaya: lol
[12:21] Smoke Wijaya: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/03/12/upcomin...
https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=...
[12:22] Anonymous1: thx reading now
[12:22] Smoke Wijaya: Well, we have still part of that on our site
[12:22] Smoke Wijaya: ""Any publicly accessible Region must be designated "Adult" and therefore require Adult validation if it advertises, makes available, references, or displays the following:

* Representations of explicit sexual conduct or genitalia, whether or not photo-realistic ("sexual conduct" will be defined inclusively, to include all erotic themes)
* Representations of intense violence depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm
* Photo-realistic nudity
* Sexually themed spaces (whether indoors or outdoors)""
[12:22] Anonymous1: :( page wasnt found
[12:22] Smoke Wijaya: what?
[12:23] Anonymous2: wierd Anonymous1
[12:23] Smoke Wijaya: Hmm, I dont understand what can be wrong Anonymous1
[12:23] Anonymous2: ru using external browser
[12:23] Anonymous1: no sl
[12:23] Smoke Wijaya: use external
[12:23] Anonymous2: try externa;
[12:23] Anonymous1: i will try external
[12:23] Smoke Wijaya: but check that def they had....
[12:23] Smoke Wijaya: and now took down...
[12:24] Smoke Wijaya: "include all erotic themes"
[12:24] Smoke Wijaya: "photo-realistic nudity"
[12:24] Smoke Wijaya: sexually themed spaces .. indoors or outdoors...
[12:24] Anonymous2: wtf they want to ban this or tag it?
[12:24] Anonymous1: so whaen do the changes come in?
[12:24] Anonymous3: like the pic i took of me naked in the bathroom
[12:25] Anonymous2: or move to Adult space
[12:25] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous2, that was their def of "adult" and thus would have to move to the new SL Red Light District they want to create
[12:25] Anonymous2: Fuckin assholes
[12:25] Anonymous2: sorry
[12:25] Anonymous2: but really
[12:25] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous1, not sure...
[12:25] Anonymous2: as has already been said elsewhere
[12:25] Anonymous2: if you dont like what you see switch it off or TP
[12:26] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous1, on original blogpost "After several weeks of these discussions, we'll announce our detailed plan"....
[12:26] Smoke Wijaya: and there will be stated when it gets implemeted I guess
[12:27] Anonymous3: true
[12:27] Anonymous1: well from what i have seen in my early sl life , sex is big here and generates a lot of money for them , they , sl may be shooting them selves in the foot on this one

[12:30] Anonymous1: so what will sl do when all these places are forced to sell there land ? they will truly shoot them selves in the foot
[12:30] Anonymous2: hehe
[12:30] Smoke Wijaya: I mean.,..in the discussion..
[12:31] Anonymous2: we were saying cheerie bogle and comiseratiing with Aeris
[12:31] Anonymous3: oh
[12:31] Anonymous2: arf
[12:31] Smoke Wijaya: hmm Anonymous1 ... good question ... what about the landglut that will come...
[12:31] Anonymous1: they will bottom out the land market
[12:31] Anonymous4: it'll be likethe rl economy!
[12:32] Smoke Wijaya: Hi Barbie :) welcome
[12:32] BarbieDoll Somerset: what means "disneyfy" sl?
[12:32] Anonymous2: its already getting there now, wtf fuck happened to the original vision of SL
[12:32] BarbieDoll Somerset: Hi and ty
[12:32] Smoke Wijaya: hehe...
[12:32] Anonymous2: make sanitsed
[12:32] Anonymous4: i guess it means to make it more wholesome
[12:32] Anonymous1: well i will do as i please with my land
[12:32] Anonymous2: play pen
[12:32] Anonymous1: and dont care if they like it or not
[12:32] Anonymous2: wholsome my ass
[12:32] BarbieDoll Somerset: no more naughty bits?
[12:32] Smoke Wijaya: well, I thought that was a good description of LL's plans to sanitize the grid of adult content and conduct and bring and seperate it geographically
[12:33] Smoke Wijaya: right BarbieDoll Somerset...on most of the mainland then
[12:33] Anonymous2: sorry but it is just a vain attempt at further control by LL
[12:33] BarbieDoll Somerset: hmmmm I dont like it and i'll tell you why....
[12:33] BarbieDoll Somerset: we're all adults here
[12:33] Anonymous3: they are the *man*
[12:33] Anonymous2: exact
[12:33] Smoke Wijaya: and btw....access to the adult content they want to control by age verification scheme....
[12:33] Smoke Wijaya: Barbie, yes...indeed
[12:33] Smoke Wijaya: but some adults cater for corporate interests
[12:34] Anonymous2: give power to avatars thats what they should do
[12:34] BarbieDoll Somerset: age verification,meaning credit cards?
[12:34] Smoke Wijaya: and most likely, plans for merging adult and teen grid are on the table as well
[12:34] Anonymous1: well the meat of the money sl gets muct be from regular people
[12:34] Smoke Wijaya: Barbie...they are also talking about credit cards again,...
[12:34] BarbieDoll Somerset: I've had my own cc since i was 12
[12:34] Anonymous2: take capital off grid
[12:34] Smoke Wijaya: right
[12:34] Anonymous2: leave SL creative
[12:34] Smoke Wijaya: and that is why they thought of another verification scheme last uyear
[12:34] Smoke Wijaya: with the company Aristotle
[12:34] Anonymous1: just think of all the land that people will be forced to sell if they have a club
[12:34] Smoke Wijaya: third party, for profit
[12:35] Smoke Wijaya: this also utterly failed
[12:35] Anonymous3: il never give in
[12:35] BarbieDoll Somerset: sell? i doubt anyone will be buying
[12:35] Anonymous3: and use a creditcard
[12:35] Smoke Wijaya: people verified themselves with dead people's data
[12:35] Anonymous3: never
[12:35] Anonymous2: its all cash nexus shit
[12:35] Anonymous1: well to heck with them
[12:35] Anonymous3: if i become a sl milionare
[12:35] Anonymous3: then maybe
[12:35] Anonymous1: we need a voise on the sl board of directers i think
[12:35] BarbieDoll Somerset: this is a disturbing development
[12:35] Anonymous3: but not likeley
[12:36] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous1, I, and slDM, think all users should be able to have a voice in ToS changes
[12:36] Anonymous2: excuse my language but they fuck you in the head LL
[12:36] BarbieDoll Somerset: I'll quit playing if they do that
[12:36] Anonymous3: im for that
[12:36] Anonymous2: every which way
[12:36] Smoke Wijaya: Hey Triss :)
[12:36] Anonymous2: I mean 10 buck for upload its extortion
[12:37] Anonymous4: how much money do they make from people who want adult content segregated?
[12:37] Triss Gray: hey! srry I'm late, I only just finished diner
[12:37] Anonymous1: can we file abuse reports agenst the lindens to the lindens , flod them with 1000's a day
[12:37] Anonymous2: 23,000,000 US traded a month...fuckin greedy frag heads!
[12:37] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous4, not sure, but what is clear and stated as such, is that they want to make the platform more suitable for corporate and academic interests....
[12:37] Smoke Wijaya: it is a growing segment
[12:37] Anonymous2: that would be good Isis!
[12:37] Smoke Wijaya: but they are dependent on us
[12:37] Anonymous2: I like the cut of your jib!
[12:37] Smoke Wijaya: not the corps...
[12:37] Anonymous2: of course smoke
[12:38] Anonymous2: completely dependent....
[12:38] Anonymous4: i'm one of those academic interests...
[12:38] BarbieDoll Somerset: remember the internet before it became a commercial platform anyone?
[12:38] Anonymous2: like parasitical leeches
[12:38] Anonymous2: YES Barbie!
[12:38] BarbieDoll Somerset: no pop ups, no malware etc
[12:38] Anonymous1: for the record i am not big on the clubs here in sl but i am smart enough to see where this will lead
[12:38] Anonymous2: I am in RL fing ancient!
[12:38] Anonymous3: hi Triss
[12:39] Anonymous1: and fuck them if they try to tell me what i can do on my mature land
[12:39] Anonymous2: INdeed Anonymous1
[12:39] Smoke Wijaya: yes, and again, the abuse report system will play a huge part in this becoming a disaster on enforcement side
[12:39] Anonymous2: exact
[12:39] Anonymous2: as said its really easy to TP away
[12:39] Anonymous2: avatars are naturally inquisitive
[12:39] Anonymous2: imo
[12:39] Smoke Wijaya: or to make that scheme where you can "mute" adult flagged content
[12:39] Anonymous2: and should be allowed anywhere or at least to break in!
[12:39] BarbieDoll Somerset: I find the whole bdsm sex thing rather creepy myself but once in a while i like to walk on the wildside and idare not do so in rl
[12:40] Anonymous2: as Proudhon said in the 1800's all property is theft!
[12:40] Smoke Wijaya: sure Barbie, and even if you dont occasionally indulge in it :) what will be next
[12:40] Anonymous1: like i said we need to organize people to flood lindens with 1000's of abuse reports agenst the lindens and there attempts to regulate and controle people and there land that they payed good money for
[12:40] BarbieDoll Somerset: oh dear
[12:40] Anonymous2: it is creepie and they are wierd Barbie
[12:40] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous1, I like that idea as well :)
[12:40] BarbieDoll Somerset: but theyre free
[12:40] Anonymous1: exact Smoke
[12:41] BarbieDoll Somerset: free the avatars!!!
[12:41] Anonymous3: we are SL
[12:41] Anonymous3: we make it
[12:41] Anonymous3: we live it
[12:41] Anonymous3: and we should be the ones that make the rules
[12:41] Anonymous4: well, I've got a stack of exams to grade :( and they're not going to grade themselves --- bye all
[12:41] Anonymous3: not the gods
[12:42] BarbieDoll Somerset: does this mean i'll be paying high prices for name brand fasions in sl soon?
[12:42] Anonymous1: i bet there are some that have invested a lot of real money into making a club and for what ? now they may be forced to try and sell land that noone will buy all to try and buy in some red light distrect , which will only last untill the lindens get another big idea?
[12:42] Anonymous3: you gonna pay for what you want
[12:42] Smoke Wijaya: Just a question in between...is anyone opposed to having this chatlog published on our website? and if so, would you be ok with just omitting your name?
[12:42] Anonymous1: people will get sick of betting on sl to leave things alone
[12:42] Smoke Wijaya: yes Anonymous1...
[12:43] Anonymous1: sl may drive one of these creative , pissed off people into making a new game
[12:43] Smoke Wijaya: thats another speer point of slDM, the lack of protection for account and content and investment
[12:43] Anonymous1: with out all the self rightous bs
[12:43] Smoke Wijaya: complete lack of akcnowledgement of the important part the user plays for LL in building and sustaining this world
[12:44] BarbieDoll Somerset: When i came here this was billed as a users universe
[12:44] Anonymous2: I built art on a seafront recently and was reported
[12:44] Anonymous2: by neighbours
[12:44] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous1, there are already competitors/alternatives, Sl clones kind of, but they lack stil a bit in development on SL..but they are opensource
[12:44] Smoke Wijaya: OpenSim
[12:44] Smoke Wijaya: (not to be confused with Openspace sims)
[12:44] Smoke Wijaya: Barbie, yes...
[12:44] Anonymous2: yeah
[12:45] Smoke Wijaya: and I am not sure if this is your first account?
[12:45] Anonymous2: made the mistake of going in and saying hey this is SL clone
[12:45] Anonymous1: why cant they just people regulate them selves and deside for them selves?
[12:45] Smoke Wijaya: but they used to say "imagined, created and owned by the users" on the frontpage
[12:45] Anonymous2: got my ass spanked!
[12:45] Smoke Wijaya: lol Digi
[12:45] Smoke Wijaya: hehe
[12:45] BarbieDoll Somerset: I stared playing sl in august 2007
[12:45] Smoke Wijaya: ok :)
[12:45] Anonymous2: There has been a lot of development with IBM for inter weaving grids
[12:46] Anonymous2: we'll be able to port into other spaces like entropia and WoW one day
[12:46] Smoke Wijaya: yes Anonymous2, but also together with LL and Opensim peeps they did that, in AWG
[12:46] BarbieDoll Somerset: well... we all know that in the service industry the policy is "the customer can go to hell"
[12:47] Smoke Wijaya: which they now moved over to MMOX, under the IETF
[12:47] Smoke Wijaya: but LL and IBM still heading it
[12:47] Anonymous1: well one thing i am sure of , these changes are not based on the bull they r telling us , there is an underlining issue here that they r not letting out of the bag
[12:47] Anonymous2: exact
[12:47] Smoke Wijaya: right Anonymous1....

[12:47] BarbieDoll Somerset: what wil be the arbiter of what is wholesome? Is my skirt too short?
[12:47] Smoke Wijaya: and many think that is merger of teen andd adult grid
[12:48] BarbieDoll Somerset: I'm too sexy for SL!!! OMG!!!
[12:48] Smoke Wijaya: Barbie, due to the abuse report system .. it will be the most puritan users that bottomline it
[12:48] Anonymous1: lets mmake a bunch of free acounts and form a sl terorist group
[12:48] Smoke Wijaya: lol Anonymous1..has been tried :)
[12:48] Smoke Wijaya: and slDM is what rose from the ashes of that one
[12:48] Anonymous2: I think it just the right length!
[12:48] BarbieDoll Somerset: seriously though
[12:48] Anonymous1: well i will do as i please on my land
[12:48] BarbieDoll Somerset: will there be a dress code?
[12:49] BarbieDoll Somerset: code of conduct?
[12:49] Anonymous2: hehe as stated earlier I have 7
[12:49] Anonymous2: private army!
[12:49] Smoke Wijaya: Barbie, beats me...
[12:49] BarbieDoll Somerset: what if i say LMFAO?
[12:49] BarbieDoll Somerset: OMG barbie said a bad word
[12:49] Smoke Wijaya: but if they are going to merge the grids.,..we will probably not be able to get naked even....
[12:49] Anonymous1: even making a rule that audlt places need to be in the sky to prevent passers buy from stumbling into the place will solve the problum
[12:50] Anonymous2: in a Barbie world!
[12:50] Smoke Wijaya: ...on the teengrid no full naked skins..
[12:50] Anonymous2: hw we gonna change?
[12:50] Anonymous2: put our jimjams on?
[12:50] Triss Gray: mm, maybe we could streak as protest action ;-)
[12:50] BarbieDoll Somerset: I'll get naked right here and right now to make a point. I'M NOT REAL!!!!
[12:50] Anonymous2: go to bed?
[12:50] Anonymous1: what r the clubs saying about all this?
[12:50] Smoke Wijaya: lol Triss
[12:50] Smoke Wijaya: yeah
[12:50] Smoke Wijaya: Hello conceptual
[12:50] Anonymous2: hehe Triss has a point
[12:50] Smoke Wijaya: welcome
[12:50] conceptual Zepp: hello
[12:51] conceptual Zepp: thank you
[12:51] Triss Gray: dongs for freedom :-p
[12:51] Smoke Wijaya: hehe...a massive streaking protest
[12:51] Smoke Wijaya: LOL
[12:51] Smoke Wijaya: we for sure would need to make a good machinima of that
[12:51] Anonymous1: next thing they will say is that i cant do my tarot card readings
[12:51] Smoke Wijaya: lol Anonymous1
[12:51] BarbieDoll Somerset: a massive streaking protest and yet no flesh was bared. They must be stopped
[12:52] Anonymous1: one big problum in sl is there is no real way for all of us to speak as one voise
[12:52] Anonymous1: only in small groupd
[12:52] Anonymous1: and cry on the fourm
[12:52] BarbieDoll Somerset: true isis
[12:52] Anonymous1: we need another way
[12:53] Smoke Wijaya: conceptual, you heard about the new plans of LL to sanitize the grid of adult content and move it over to special designated area?
[12:53] Anonymous1: and they will never give it to us
[12:53] BarbieDoll Somerset: sl is all about self
[12:53] conceptual Zepp: only what i read in ure ad
[12:53] Smoke Wijaya: ah ok
[12:53] Anonymous2: thanks Trss ;)
[12:53] conceptual Zepp: i am interested in the disney notion
[12:53] BarbieDoll Somerset: I'm offended by the way sl has cheapened physical beauty
[12:54] Triss Gray: yes! ugly is the new beautiful
[12:54] Anonymous2: yep we could all dress up as Disney Characters
[12:54] Smoke Wijaya: Well, in this short article are links to some of the original posts and some to additional discussions so far: http://sldemocraticmovement.org/ll_disneyfy_sl_grid
[12:54] BarbieDoll Somerset: mmm hmmm
[12:54] Anonymous2: in the nude
[12:54] Smoke Wijaya: What about the disney notion? lol
[12:54] conceptual Zepp: so no nudity ? lol
[12:54] BarbieDoll Somerset: I can sit in a club for a hour and not be approaced by a man. That never happens in rl
[12:54] Anonymous1: will do as i please on my land
[12:54] Smoke Wijaya: well, that is what they seem to mean conceptual...or what it would imply...
[12:54] Anonymous2: I would love to see Minnie Mouse in the buff
[12:55] BarbieDoll Somerset: eeuuuww Anonymous2
[12:55] Anonymous2: hehe
[12:55] Smoke Wijaya: the def of "adult" is very broad...or at least was, they took the site down that showed it....
[12:55] Smoke Wijaya: ""Any publicly accessible Region must be designated "Adult" and therefore require Adult validation if it advertises, makes available, references, or displays the following:

* Representations of explicit sexual conduct or genitalia, whether or not photo-realistic ("sexual conduct" will be defined inclusively, to include all erotic themes)
* Representations of intense violence depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm
* Photo-realistic nudity
* Sexually themed spaces (whether indoors or outdoors)""
[12:55] BarbieDoll Somerset: wow
[12:55] Anonymous2: In some respects I think they are looking for a fight
[12:55] Smoke Wijaya: yes barbie
[12:55] Anonymous2: cloaked in Sanitary statements
[12:56] Anonymous2: its really BS
[12:56] BarbieDoll Somerset: I'll get legal on that and have an interretation by the end of the century
[12:56] Triss Gray: Anonymous2: http://www.free-x-toons.com/mickeyporn/pics/minnie%27s_summer.jpg ;-)
[12:56] Anonymous1: they will kill land value there will be a rush to sell land
[12:56] Anonymous2: lol thanks Triss
[12:56] BarbieDoll Somerset: is that what they want isis?
[12:56] Smoke Wijaya: yeah Anonymous1, that is a good point..had not even thought about landmarket yet
[12:56] BarbieDoll Somerset: i cant imagine why
[12:56] Anonymous2: seen it ;-)
[12:56] Smoke Wijaya: Hi Rin :)
[12:57] Rin Tae: hihi

[12:58] Anonymous1: well to heck with them if we all do as we please on our land what can they do ? ban us all ? we need a way to have a united voise , not just the fourm or in small groups such as this
[12:58] Smoke Wijaya: yes Anonymous1
[12:58] Smoke Wijaya: indeed
[12:58] Smoke Wijaya: masive civil disobedience
[12:58] BarbieDoll Somerset: a representative republic of sl?
[12:59] BarbieDoll Somerset: that wont fly
[12:59] Smoke Wijaya: no way...
[12:59] BarbieDoll Somerset: it's out of fashion in the real world
[12:59] Anonymous1: does this mean that they will also regulate profile pic's
[12:59] Smoke Wijaya: at least, we are not looking to a representative structure :)
[12:59] Smoke Wijaya: we are on the internet....that has to be able to be direct and involve all individuals
[12:59] Smoke Wijaya: Hey Anonymous5, welcome
[12:59] Anonymous1: i dont think they can enforce this at all
[12:59] Rin Tae: profiles need to be PG .. but they are not enfocing anyhting aobut that
[12:59] Anonymous5: Thanks
[12:59] BarbieDoll Somerset: I'm getting angry
[13:00] Smoke Wijaya: "Use it!"
[13:00] Smoke Wijaya: hehe
[13:00] Anonymous2: They already have a structure in place to monitor
[13:00] Anonymous5: what did I miss? chatlog anyone?
[13:00] Anonymous2: whether you give your credit details or not...
[13:00] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous5, I will post it tomorrow on our website, with some names anonimized...
[13:00] Anonymous2: I say we mass frag the Lindens
[13:00] Smoke Wijaya: sorry that I cannot give now...
[13:00] Rin Tae: it is silly in my opinion to even trying to enforce it .. it would create a massive uproar from a big number of businesses since thes would limit thier advertisment ... the same goas for groups
[13:00] BarbieDoll Somerset: they would go bankrupt if i stopped buing shoes
[13:01] BarbieDoll Somerset: and my sister will go with me
[13:01] Anonymous5: ah...yes. the adult rating thing WILL ...but most of the ones affected are the ones that use a large amount of campers and bots
[13:01] Smoke Wijaya: not sure if I will be able to summarize what we discussed so far...
[13:02] Smoke Wijaya: :)
[13:02] Anonymous1: we need to take a different aproch , we need to demand a way in which we can truly have a voise in sl , and not just the fourm
[13:02] Anonymous2: yeah we need to draw attention to the Cause
[13:02] Rin Tae: thats true .. the open letter was a good move, but it was largely ignored as it seems
[13:02] Triss Gray: anyone living close enough to go throw a brick through ll's office window? with a note attached of course
[13:02] Anonymous2: we have to grow our numbers
[13:03] Anonymous2: and we have to focus on the Lindens
[13:03] Smoke Wijaya: but some nice ideas for maybe actions came up...Isis proposed some massive distributed abuse reporting of Lindens...Triss proposed to have a massive streaking protest...
[13:03] Smoke Wijaya: I am forgetting one...
[13:03] Anonymous1: we should also post links to those other games on the form that directly chalange sl on the fourm , put some fear into e lindens
[13:03] Anonymous1: hit them in their pocket book
[13:03] BarbieDoll Somerset: how about shutting down the linden exchange?
[13:03] BarbieDoll Somerset: hit them where it hurts
[13:04] Anonymous2: thats always agood idea, been done before
[13:04] BarbieDoll Somerset: has it?
[13:04] Triss Gray: well, I don't think the lindens will fear that much, as long as the content isn't portable, and as long as the other's platforms possible content is less rich
[13:04] Anonymous1: if we had a voise we could even boycot for one day and show them who is boss
[13:04] Anonymous5: like who? is there anyone really directly competeing with LL?
[13:04] BarbieDoll Somerset: Money talks
[13:04] Rin Tae: yes.. but that would need to find a virtual world, that would be a competitio
[13:04] Anonymous2: yes Triss
[13:04] Anonymous1: but with no way of having a unified voise we can never hope to do it
[13:04] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous1, LL is tightly involved in the interoperability project between SL and its direct competitors/alternatives, Opensim grids
[13:04] Smoke Wijaya: they know of them
[13:05] Anonymous2: Of course
[13:05] Anonymous1: hasnt china made a nock off version yet?
[13:05] BarbieDoll Somerset: I'll bet there would be repurcuscions if we started a serious movement
[13:05] Anonymous2: the code is to crack the monetized system
[13:05] Anonymous5: even with a voice, unless you have really power or can present an opportunity...why should they listen?
[13:05] conceptual Zepp: when i first came to sl lindens where really visible - i havnt seen any since i returned here last week
[13:05] Smoke Wijaya: indeed Anonymous5
[13:05] Anonymous2: we have to imagine what we want as a fairer system of exchange
[13:05] Smoke Wijaya: the ToS has to be adjusted for that, and in effect user rights established
[13:06] Smoke Wijaya: legally
[13:06] Anonymous2: that so much is spent on bits is anathema
[13:06] BarbieDoll Somerset: we have no real power here
[13:06] Anonymous5: and why is it whenever I come here I end up playing devil's advocate?
[13:06] Smoke Wijaya: an end to the "for any reason or no reason"era
[13:06] Anonymous5: :P
[13:06] Anonymous2: exact Smoke
[13:06] Smoke Wijaya: devils advocate?
[13:06] Smoke Wijaya: lol
[13:06] Anonymous5: hehe Anonymous5 but you would be such a good devil
[13:06] Smoke Wijaya: thats what we say for long time already
[13:07] Smoke Wijaya: we have to have something substantial, a radical change in the tos, not some supreficial "power" to give feedback to a benevolent dictatorship
[13:07] Anonymous1: we need to take a different aproch here , let not make this about the plans for changes do to the adult theme bit , lets get something going to unite the people to demand a voise in any changes
[13:08] Smoke Wijaya: by all means
[13:08] Anonymous1: we need a scripter to make a petition register script
[13:08] Anonymous1: and post an event for each hour of the day
[13:08] Anonymous1: requesting people to come and click the patition
[13:08] Anonymous5: again...there are alot of people with alot of voices...how do you propose to be able to speak for the many languages and cultures that make up second life?
[13:08] Anonymous1: and read the note card
[13:08] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous5, we wont be able to...
[13:09] Anonymous1: we need people with land to do this as one place could not do it alone
[13:09] Smoke Wijaya: and wont claim we do
[13:09] conceptual Zepp: is there an equivalant to the UN in sl ?
[13:09] Anonymous2: no
[13:09] Smoke Wijaya: no
[13:09] Anonymous1: we need to take an aproach to apeal to people showing them the inportance of our voise being herd and respected
[13:09] Rin Tae: yes.. noone can claim to speak for alll if it have not been all who have appoitned this one to speak you can say .. so we do not claim to do it
[13:09] conceptual Zepp: who comes after the lindens?
[13:10] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous5, but I think that in protest actions, petitions and what not, you can leave room for individual voices....
[13:10] Smoke Wijaya: yet remain to have a focus
[13:10] Anonymous1: all we need is a handful of land owners to post events , a petition event
[13:10] Smoke Wijaya: nah, that is not *all* we need...
[13:11] Anonymous2: true Smoke
[13:11] Anonymous1: enough to have an event posted each hour of the day
[13:11] Arnold McKeenan: Hi hi ㋡
[13:11] Rin Tae: hi Arnold
[13:11] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous1, petitions are also easily made on the web...links passed out
[13:11] Anonymous2: greets Arnold
[13:11] Smoke Wijaya: Hey Arnold
[13:11] Arnold McKeenan: I'm just rezzing then I'll sit down
[13:11] Anonymous2: hehehe
[13:12] Anonymous1: my hope by doing it in world would be to get realy large numbers
[13:12] Anonymous1: as a lot do not event go to the fourm
[13:12] Anonymous1: we need to be respected by the lindens
[13:12] Smoke Wijaya: Anyways Anonymous5, I also think that besides the specifics of this new policy change, we can also point to ToS changes that enable and protect any individual user, no matter what their voice is
[13:12] Rin Tae: yes.. forums always only attract a part of the population only
[13:12] Anonymous2: as if they will do that
[13:12] Anonymous1: and for that to happen we need a louder voise
[13:12] Anonymous1: we are not powerful enough
[13:12] Smoke Wijaya: Wb Triss
[13:12] Anonymous2: however with the right weps and strategy
[13:13] Triss Gray: ty
[13:13] Rin Tae: wb Triss
[13:13] Anonymous2: we can become thier Taliban!
[13:13] Anonymous2: hey Triss
[13:13] Anonymous1: if we had an event running some where each hour of the day requestiing people to come read 1 note card then click the button we could get unreal numbers
[13:13] Arnold McKeenan facepalms
[13:13] Smoke Wijaya: true Anonymous1
[13:13] Anonymous1: big enough to force them to take notice
[13:14] Anonymous5: Or you can go the other route and provide something of value to LL...remember that they are not a politcal party or a government, they are a business. If you can offer them something that has potential for growth and greater future profits, THEN you will have power, THEN you will have a voice.
[13:14] Anonymous2: exact Anonymous5
[13:14] Anonymous1: as long as SL can keep debate limited to small numbers and unorganized they win every time
[13:15] Triss Gray: businesses should realize more that the best potential for profit longterm is usually treating your customers right...
[13:15] Anonymous2: sometime ago we courted Media favour outside SL
[13:15] Anonymous2: perhaps we need to do this again
[13:15] Anonymous5: again...you are acting as an advesary.
[13:15] Rin Tae: of course .. more profits are always nice .. but I actually think, that LL makes a mistake with their ToS .. and that security of investment guaranteed for the residents would drive the economy furthere and increase their profits
[13:15] Anonymous2: adversarail yes
[13:16] Anonymous2: because the system imposed is dicatorial
[13:16] Arnold McKeenan: Anonymous2 is anti-most things though, that should be remembered.
[13:16] Arnold McKeenan: :P
[13:16] Smoke Wijaya: back

[13:17] Anonymous1: one question .... i am enjoying our talk but realy what will come of it ?
[13:17] Anonymous1: we need a way for our voise to be heard and respected
[13:18] Anonymous2: fair question Anonymous1
[13:18] Rin Tae: hopefully, what will come out of it are ideas how to move things forward .. that was one of the reasons why we started those
[13:18] Anonymous2: yes so Anonymous5 what would you suggest
[13:18] Anonymous5: So is the cable company, the phone company and most ISPs. All dicatorships. So is Mom and Pops Diner. The people have no say in whats on the menu there either.
[13:18] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous5, I think that thing of value is the awereness of LL that they cannot do without us normal users ( as opposed to corporate and academic interests etc) and that they wont keep us when not more protection of account and investment and some true negotiation power will be established....but do you ahve an idea how to spin it into something that would seem of value for LL?
[13:18] Arnold McKeenan: Anonymous5, if people stop eating the apple pie, then they take the apple pie of the menu....
[13:19] Arnold McKeenan: or they make it better
[13:19] Smoke Wijaya: and yes, the cable, phone and ISPs should also become coopretaives, owned and controilled by the users....imo
[13:19] Anonymous2: new group
[13:20] Smoke Wijaya: same with energy providers
[13:20] Anonymous5: I would suggest that you find a way to relay what people want to Linden Labs in a language that they can use, provide some sort of forum and means that gives everyone a fair share. Show how democratic process can work for them
[13:20] Anonymous2: Yes smoke we'll make an anarcho syndicalist out of you yet :)))
[13:20] Smoke Wijaya: I am...
[13:20] Smoke Wijaya: well, libertarian communist...
[13:20] Triss Gray: see! :-)
[13:20] Anonymous2: Fair point Anonymous5
[13:20] Rin Tae: it is acutally easy to spin it .. the successfull RL markets need protection of property and equal rights for anybody to functiuon and to generate profit .. thats basic economy, but most companies like this are rather scared of possible lawsuits or are affraid to give up control to see the possible gigantic profit increase that would come from people feelign secure about what they invest
[13:20] Smoke Wijaya: I...not slDM ;)
[13:20] Anonymous2: we do have a forum offworld
[13:21] Anonymous2: exact Smoke ;)
[13:21] Anonymous1: the forum on the sl site is not the forum we need
[13:21] Anonymous1: we need a way to be taken serious
[13:21] Anonymous2: well then lets tweet!
[13:22] Anonymous1: and thin of all those that have never even gone to the forum
[13:22] Anonymous2: Anonymous1 you know a funny thing happened on the way to the forum
[13:22] Anonymous1: lol
[13:22] Rin Tae: lol
[13:22] Anonymous5: No, that doesnt work either. Something new would be needed. and you would really have to innovate to find a voting process that lets everyone be counted while being secure so that ballot boxes can't be stuffed
[13:23] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous5, rigth....
[13:23] Smoke Wijaya: we have looked into that a bit.,..
[13:23] Anonymous5: aaand ...unfortunatly...you would need some sort of Verification
[13:23] Smoke Wijaya: and GNU.FREE seems most suitable
[13:23] Rin Tae: e-voting has been tried out many times and so far, no really secure method has been found ..... thats a bit of a problem if one really want to make such a process compareble to RL methods
[13:23] Anonymous5: otherwise Alty McAlt and his million brothers will always cast the winning vote
[13:23] Smoke Wijaya: http://www.free-project.org/users/#3
[13:24] Smoke Wijaya: created for RL voting
[13:24] Smoke Wijaya: yet all projects, also by the US army, have been halted
[13:24] Smoke Wijaya: due to the inability to make it 100% secure
[13:24] Anonymous1: well this adult thing and there planed chenges will outrage 90% of sl players
[13:24] Anonymous2: too many virtual hanging chads then
[13:24] Arnold McKeenan: You really think so Anonymous1? I reckon 60% of SL useres won't notice
[13:24] Arnold McKeenan: Landowners aren't the majority
[13:24] Anonymous1: not so sure about that
[13:25] Anonymous2: But the majority will be affected
[13:25] Anonymous5: 90% will be outraged, but less than 10 really affected.
[13:25] Anonymous2: or maybe we're all alts!
[13:25] Smoke Wijaya: not so sure with this one Anonymous5...
[13:25] Arnold McKeenan: what makes you think 90% will be outraged?
[13:25] Anonymous2: The 150000 million on SL where are they hiding!
[13:25] Rin Tae: many will notice,... some more then others .. some will welcome it and others will start to scream... but 90% is too much I would say
[13:25] Smoke Wijaya: I mean, the def also leaves room for the "erotic themed/sexually themed" bedrooms in private homes
[13:25] Arnold McKeenan: Exactly
[13:25] Anonymous1: look at what events r the the most crowed , look at what items wsell the most . look at all the sl couples
[13:25] Smoke Wijaya: or full nudity pics in gallery
[13:25] Arnold McKeenan: if 90% were outraged, they would do something
[13:25] Anonymous5: How many of you have businesses or venues that will be directly affected by these changes?
[13:25] Triss Gray: well, they did state not to aim for that
[13:26] Arnold McKeenan: 90% of a population have never pulled together for anything ever
[13:26] Anonymous2: perhaps we should appeal to ALL account holders to go on grid at the same time
[13:26] Anonymous2: that would sure cause some LAG
[13:26] Smoke Wijaya: Triss they did....yes, but the def said soemthing different.
[13:26] Anonymous1: or boycot for one day
[13:26] Anonymous5: and no, this does not affect art galleries, private residences, or even nude beaches
[13:26] Anonymous2: either
[13:26] Smoke Wijaya: although they took the page down that stated the definition of adult
[13:26] Anonymous2: I like the safety in numbers!
[13:27] Anonymous1: haha
[13:27] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous5, how you know for sure?
[13:27] Arnold McKeenan: I think we need some perspective. The disneyfication is a minor issue, the people being heard is a major issue
[13:27] Smoke Wijaya: Did you see the def they had?
[13:27] Rin Tae: nude beaches have been mentioned by a linden in a answer in the forum I think .. those would be required to move as welll when I remember correctly
[13:27] Anonymous2: Comrade!
[13:27] Anonymous1: once they have some way in place to regulate this they would then have the tools to bring forth any rule they like
[13:27] Anonymous5: because I've done some extensive research on this subject. I am one that will be directly effected
[13:27] Anonymous2: your joking Rin
[13:28] Anonymous1: this could be a means to bring in those very tools
[13:28] Smoke Wijaya: ok Anonymous5, care to share?
[13:28] Anonymous2: can you give me the link?
[13:28] Arnold McKeenan: Anonymous1, they already have the tools to bring forth any rule they like
[13:28] Arnold McKeenan: Look at the ToS
[13:28] Anonymous5: I've read every post, every FAQ, every blog on this...and that was freaking exhausting
[13:28] Smoke Wijaya: ok
[13:28] Arnold McKeenan: The disneyfication is carrying on in their normal trend
[13:28] Anonymous1: not so sure about that , they can make a rule yes but inforcing it is a different matter all together
[13:28] Smoke Wijaya: but then you also saw their previous definition
[13:28] Smoke Wijaya: new one we dont know yet
[13:29] Anonymous2: true
[13:29] Rin Tae: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=311513&page=1&pp=15 ... that is the forum post about it .. I have not read the last day of the discussion, but I am reading the thing
[13:29] Anonymous2: thanks Rin
[13:29] Smoke Wijaya: Well once more the(old) def which page has been taken down now ... you can beat me if it becomes spam: ""Any publicly accessible Region must be designated "Adult" and therefore require Adult validation if it advertises, makes available, references, or displays the following:

* Representations of explicit sexual conduct or genitalia, whether or not photo-realistic ("sexual conduct" will be defined inclusively, to include all erotic themes)
* Representations of intense violence depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm
* Photo-realistic nudity
* Sexually themed spaces (whether indoors or outdoors)""
[13:30] Anonymous1: how offten do you hold events here?
[13:30] Anonymous5: okay...break it down this way...Mature is late night Cinimax, Adult is the stuff behind the curtain at the local video store.
[13:30] Anonymous1: also is there a prefab version of this lovely dome for sale?
[13:31] Smoke Wijaya: they dont say "designated public area"... they are speaking of "any publically accessible"
[13:31] Rin Tae: twice a week .. tuesdays we have this discussion event and saturdays is a party (also with discussion if someone wants)
[13:31] Smoke Wijaya: and sundays, at 11 am slt, we have slDM membership meetings
[13:31] Rin Tae: which dome?
[13:32] Smoke Wijaya: Wb Barbie
[13:32] Anonymous1: the one we r in
[13:32] BarbieDoll Somerset: ty
[13:32] BarbieDoll Somerset: bad crash
[13:32] Rin Tae: ohh.. it is going to be replaced by a much nicer version as soon as the new seats are ready
[13:32] Anonymous1: its a great meeting place here
[13:32] Anonymous1: ah lol cool
[13:32] BarbieDoll Somerset: cant see. am i standing on anyones head?
[13:33] Anonymous2: you can stand on my head anytime barbie

[13:35] Anonymous1: just wondering how do naked furries factor into this new rule?
[13:35] Anonymous5: if they don't have realistic genitals out all the time, they don't
[13:35] Rin Tae: furries are already upset, because everybody is automatically putting them into adult content I think ... but some are naked .. jsut fur covered ... but then ... figures in cartoons are often too
[13:36] Anonymous2: fing educationalists with their damned acronyms, wait a minute IOOT
[13:36] Anonymous2: yes Rin the debate is on in Furryland, to wear clothes or go Fur was a hot topic in Luskwood
[13:37] Triss Gray: I guess the fur is ok, but the eventual dangling bits not :-)
[13:37] Rin Tae: and it is a ll as ridiculous as the thing with skins being adult content .. as I said before it would be like banning lookign at yourself in the mirror
[13:37] Anonymous1: its silly
[13:37] Anonymous2: what as Furries!
[13:37] Anonymous2: I may sport a beard
[13:38] Anonymous1: well my new friends i must go for now but look forward to coming back in the future
[13:38] Anonymous2: but hairsuit I have not!
[13:38] Anonymous5: again...skins are fine. Having your prim naugty bits attached is not
[13:38] Anonymous5: See you tommorrow, Anonymous1?
[13:38] Rin Tae: see you!
[13:38] Anonymous1: i LM this place :)
[13:38] Smoke Wijaya: (In between, I will post the chatlog and a summary tomorrow on the slDM website, and will omit the names of people that have said they want to be anonymous...if anything else wants this, please say so. the slDM website is http://sldemocraticmovement.org When you want to be a bit closer updated of events , actions, you can join slDM :)
[13:38] Anonymous1: cu all :)
[13:38] Smoke Wijaya: )
[13:38] Anonymous2: good to meet you Anonymous1
[13:39] Smoke Wijaya: Bye Anonymous1 :) nice to meet you
[13:39] Anonymous1: say hello to Osiris
[13:39] Triss Gray: Anonymous5: but but... female skins have boobies! that can't be tolerated! everybody knows that even the accidental showing of nipple leads to mass plundering!
[13:39] Rin Tae waves from behind the couch
[13:39] Anonymous1: will do ;)
[13:39] Digi DeCuir: Ah the Classical World
[13:39] Digi DeCuir: bit of Plato hehe
[13:40] Smoke Wijaya: man, we are still stuck with the thought of that fascist Plato
[13:40] Anonymous5: I havent heard anything one way or the other on the nipples front, actually
[13:40] Anonymous5: but since Nude beaches are okay, I imagine thats fine
[13:40] Anonymous2: nipples??
[13:40] Smoke Wijaya: but we know the whole bs around some nipples on a sculpture during the SL5B event
[13:40] Rin Tae: what hapened? I have not heared anything about it
[13:42] Anonymous5: But skins are fine, they are not considered adult content. Nudes are fine, just not RL nudes that are not artistic
[13:42] Triss Gray: lol
[13:42] Triss Gray: what bullshit
[13:42] Anonymous5: How so?
[13:42] Triss Gray: the whole debate about this can and this can't
[13:43] Triss Gray: some artistic stuff is eg way more of putting then some "pornography" :-)
[13:43] Smoke Wijaya: I cant find the articles about that right now....
[13:43] Smoke Wijaya: but there was some statue, and the nipples had to be removed
[13:43] Rin Tae: np Smoke
[13:43] Anonymous2: i'll show you some right now
[13:43] Triss Gray: what's the big deal about nipples anyway, man and women have them :-)
[13:44] Rin Tae: but each one has their own! you must not see what kind of nipples other people have!
[13:44] Smoke Wijaya: I guess we also wil have to await the new definition for adult
[13:44] Triss Gray: I mustn't? oO
[13:44] Smoke Wijaya: becausr that will allow for interpretation by the user
[13:44] Smoke Wijaya: for abuse reporting
[13:45] Rin Tae: yes.. in this case, it is all depending on the final definitions once this rules are imposed ...... I do not have much hope, but we will see what it will bring I think

[13:45] Anonymous5: so let me ask this...who here thinks they will be directly affected by these changes?
[13:46] Triss Gray: directly? not much
[13:46] Digi DeCuir: hehehe
[13:46] Rin Tae: I will be most likely .. since with my activities on certain RP sims that are very much adult .. it will have to see how this will affect me
[13:46] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous5, I cannot completely see the scope of the effects this wil have...but yes, I wont probably be directly influenced...but that again depends on the definitions for what is adult...
[13:46] Triss Gray: but I don't like the principle too much
[13:46] Smoke Wijaya: I am not sure what will be the mess the enforcement will give, or what it means for sl "society"and economy...
[13:47] Triss Gray: there is enough overzealous political correctness and prudeness and hypocrisy already
[13:47] Smoke Wijaya: but I do think it will give a major blow...
[13:47] Anonymous2: absolutely triss
[13:47] Smoke Wijaya: also because of the age verification scheme
[13:47] Rin Tae: in no way I am going to give anything to this company
[13:47] Smoke Wijaya: how many people now are working in clubs and what not that are not age verified...
[13:47] Arnold McKeenan: what is the LL proposal for age verification?
[13:47] Triss Gray: the way it is now i guess
[13:47] Anonymous5: yeah, that part could be major stumbling block
[13:47] Triss Gray: aristotle
[13:47] Smoke Wijaya: they still have the old scheme with this for profit Aristotle company
[13:48] Anonymous5: If you have payment info on file as well
[13:48] Smoke Wijaya: where you can evrify with dead peoples data
[13:48] Arnold McKeenan: what is aristotle? Other than philosopher
[13:48] Smoke Wijaya: and as mickey mouse
[13:48] Triss Gray: for profit datamining company
[13:48] Triss Gray: and it doesn't even work
[13:48] Anonymous5: then you would be verified for up to 5 alts
[13:48] Anonymous2: he was a bugger for the bottle
[13:48] Smoke Wijaya: and yes, they are saying on the forums that credit cards also might do...but they went to the Aristotle one because minors can also get cc's nowadays
[13:48] Rin Tae: a laying firm that was invovled in data sellign and can not have by any logical explantions what they claim to have on data about the entire world
[13:48] Arnold McKeenan: This here is the wattle, the emblem of ouir land
[13:49] Triss Gray: data they don't really have
[13:49] Smoke Wijaya: again, there was this great proposal for a WoW like system with cards that you buy in local stores, where you show your ID and verify you are over 18
[13:49] Smoke Wijaya: that way, we would not need to share our data with LL or anyone
[13:50] Triss Gray: yes, but somehow I really doubt shops will "sell" that
[13:50] Smoke Wijaya: Triss, I still dont understand that thought of you
[13:50] Triss Gray: well, take a shop here in be
[13:50] Anonymous5: I would like to see more than one method so that people can pick and choose what method they want to use to get verified
[13:50] Triss Gray: which shop will see enough demand for that card to carry it?
[13:51] Triss Gray: sl is a different "animal" from mmo's
[13:51] Smoke Wijaya: computer shops, video games shops...
[13:51] Rin Tae: they will .. and on LL side, I would do it thias way .. once it is not a security risk like aristotle and it is alos advertisment .. people see it in shops and might buy it if the box is shiny enough
[13:51] Smoke Wijaya: yah, but not too different for that...no freaking way...I think
[13:51] Smoke Wijaya: and otherwise telephone shops
[13:51] Triss Gray: computer/game shops so far have no experience with sl
[13:51] Triss Gray: because there's no money in it for them
[13:51] Anonymous2: where's this going?
[13:51] Rin Tae: they have experiance with selling .. I think more is not required
[13:51] Triss Gray: and a one time buy card won't changet hat much
[13:51] Anonymous2: I say crash the money system
[13:52] Anonymous2: especially in SL
[13:52] Triss Gray: the diff with eg wow is that people buy that card regularly, and massively
[13:52] Anonymous5: What would that do, Anonymous2?
[13:52] Rin Tae: I would call that a proven system then
[13:52] Rin Tae: cards seem fine and sufficient for the needs of SL
[13:52] Triss Gray: and if age verif get's equalled with adult content, people won't like asking for it either
[13:53] Anonymous2: In SL its a completely arbitrary construct, absolutely plastic and NOT what was dreamt of originally
[13:53] Anonymous2: SL is NOT a home away from home
[13:53] Anonymous2: It should be an escape to new possibilities
[13:53] Smoke Wijaya: so...why doesn't LL actually do like it happens on the internet ... let users state that they are over 18 to let them enter.....
[13:53] Anonymous2: I leave those opportunities to those who have the guts tot hink different
[13:54] Anonymous2: fuck money
[13:54] Anonymous5: psst...its a PR move. Thats what this whole thing really is :P
[13:54] Digi DeCuir: hehehe
[13:54] Triss Gray: maybe because other 18 only sites usually require a cc too?
[13:54] Smoke Wijaya: ?
[13:55] Anonymous2: not originally envisioned that way
[13:55] Smoke Wijaya: if you want "good" quality and full length yes Triss
[13:55] Smoke Wijaya: and not even that
[13:55] Anonymous2: full length 18+
[13:55] Anonymous2: ooo err that soulds rude
[13:55] Anonymous5: stop bragging
[13:55] Triss Gray: :-p
[13:55] Smoke Wijaya: hehe
[13:56] Triss Gray: but it is indeed somewhat weird that for other sites a statement is enough
[13:56] Triss Gray: maybe because sl is mediatized more
[13:56] Triss Gray: and "videogames" are always worse
[13:56] Anonymous5: SL has a somewhat tarnished reputation for the adult side
[13:56] Smoke Wijaya: Well, with that question I was of course focussing too much on verification only, and not on their wish to sanitize the grid for corporate interests
[13:57] Anonymous5: alot of people and businesses won't take it seriously for that
[13:57] Anonymous5: and I seriously doubt they are really looking to "sanitize" the grid
[13:57] Anonymous5: its PR
[13:57] Anonymous2: Only becuase people have smutty minds
[13:57] Anonymous2: Vorren!
[13:57] Anonymous2: lool
[13:57] Anonymous5: "Linden Labs Cleans Up Second Life"
[13:57] Anonymous2: Not suggesting that you're being smutty
[13:58] Anonymous5: I own three adult venues
[13:58] Anonymous5: lol
[13:58] Anonymous2: hehehehehehehe on you go!
[13:58] Anonymous5: I'm technically a pervert
[13:58] Rin Tae: I have said it a few times already .. that I suspect, that when SL was opened, they have never envisioned, that it will create so much adult content or content that someone decided to call this way ... by now, I think this part of SL is too big and it is most likely the one that has the most long time SL residents and most commited users in it
[13:58] Anonymous5: technically
[13:58] Anonymous2: bet you must be makin da cash!
[13:59] Anonymous5: eh...the market has been long saturated
[13:59] Anonymous5: I keep em around mostly for the community surrounding it
[13:59] Smoke Wijaya: So, do you welcome the change they want, you want to move to this red light district? or?
[14:00] Anonymous5: It causes problems, no doubts there
[14:00] Smoke Wijaya: right Rin, so you mean to say it will cause huge dent in sustaining users of SL?
[14:00] Rin Tae: thinking of that .. if the red light people would pull together and come up with some nice slogans and advertisment .. making it the hub of activity ... it wuld nicely backfire on the plans LL might have
[14:01] Anonymous5: but it also opens opportunities and, in a way, levels the playing field for those that provide actual quality venues and thoes that just use money and keyword spam to stay on top
[14:01] Anonymous2: fair, but it still seems draconian to suggest some way of gateting, why do they expect other business to flood in?
[14:01] Anonymous5: another thing...no campers or bots in these areas to inflate traffic
[14:02] Smoke Wijaya: Anonymous5, why not?
[14:02] Anonymous5: I expect the quality of adult venues will rise
[14:02] Rin Tae: I am not sure how it will affect the population ... many people who are in SL for more 'specific' activities might decide to look for other places .. much more will look and find holes in the definition to continue to be here and do waht they like as long as posible
[14:02] Anonymous5: Verification.
[14:02] Anonymous2: I say kick over the statues
[14:03] Rin Tae: verificiation is one thing .. but not wiht the current system
[14:03] Triss Gray: lol, adult venues for the community sounds a bit like buying playboy for the articles :-)
[14:03] Anonymous5: No kicking over the statues. you may leave an angry post-it note though
[14:03] Anonymous5: you would be supprised.
[14:03] Anonymous2: Supreme Executive Power derives from a mandate of the Masses
[14:04] Anonymous5: Okay, not all of em...the newbie sex caves are pretty much what they appear to be
[14:04] Rin Tae: actually I am sure, that TRiss would be .. people in those are often very nice and open minded
[14:04] Triss Gray: I guess so :-)
[14:04] Anonymous5: yep, and less tied up to antiquated ideas of sexuality than most
[14:05] Rin Tae: I have always wondered about the newbies who want to sex places one second after they found the teleport function .. this is .. disturbing
[14:05] Triss Gray: but you must admit it can sound a bit funny
[14:05] Anonymous2: come on this iis NOT about Sexuality it is about control
[14:05] Anonymous2: the control of access to material
[14:05] Smoke Wijaya: I am going to log guys....enjoyed the discussion....and will for sure post the chatlog, so we can continue on the website (tomorrow) ... also good for the several ideas for maybe some actions that are voiced tonight.
[14:05] Anonymous5: Its about PR.
[14:05] Rin Tae: see you Smoke
[14:05] Anonymous2: thanks Smoke and see ya
[14:05] Smoke Wijaya: have a good day/evening, see you soon
[14:06] Triss Gray: bye smoke! relaxing nights! :-)
[14:06] Anonymous2: you keep saying its about PR
[14:06] Arnold McKeenan: bai bia
[14:06] Anonymous2: what PR
[14:06] Anonymous5: Sorry to burst the angry bubble , but noone is trying to oppress anything...just be squeekyclean in the image department
[14:06] Anonymous2: Proportionality?
[14:06] Anonymous2: no
[14:06] Triss Gray: which is opression too
[14:06] Anonymous5: Nice seeing you again, Smoke
[14:06] Triss Gray: the "reason" doesn't matter much when the method isn't sound
[14:06] Anonymous2: I am only too aware of what LL are up to I am charectising ange to make a point
[14:07] Smoke Wijaya: Likewise Anonymous5, ciao

[Short text I drafted concerning adult content policy and 'wear a hat-day'. Please read it and add comments with proposals, ideas for changes, additions etc Thanks.]

By Smoke

Adult Content Civil Disobedience

The Lab has made up its mind on Adult Content. It had already from the start, like it always has with policy changes. There is nothing we can do to prevent implementation of this draconian measure.

What we can do is disobey! Disobey because WE all are Adult Content! Disobey and refuse to abide by rules that are impossible to enforce and trump on our freedom of speech and expression. Freedoms that were very much part of the Second Life world build by the early adopters and which makes up a significant part of its life. WE all ARE Adult Content!

Therefore a call for Massive Civil Disobedience!
Refuse to relocate to the Ursula continent.
Refuse to age verify with Aristotle.
Refuse to flag your content and land.
Refuse to Abuse Report.
Refuse to comply and to change your life.
Refuse to get Disneyfied!

We also call for a general "Wear a Hat-Day"; a day of massive civil disobedience by having a day of celebration to loudly and proudly proclaim, while wearing nothing but a hat, that we are adult content and that we want freedom of speech and expression!

[EDIT - 8May09 - new/changed plans]

We will also create a call out and campaign around refusing to abuse report adult content policy "violations" and we will probably draw the "we ar a hat- day" broader, also including pictures etc of classical art and potential "nipple-gates"

MISC-2727

"Terminate All Installation of any "Adult Content" filtering, Relocation, Banning, Viewer Modifications, Server Modifications" / http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727

Key: MISC-2727
Type: New Feature
Status: Reopened
Priority: Showstopper
Assignee: Unassigned
Reporter: RichD Tomsen
Votes: 3343